This might be getting a little redundant, but I wanted to clarify something. The number one reason I'm not voting for Barack Obama is that I believe when I vote, I should use my faith as my guide. I can't in good conscience send someone to run the country who seems to go against so many biblical, and common sense principles. My advice to you if you haven't really been paying attention, is to earnestly go and seek out information. Don't
"regurgitate" what you hear, but if you hear something you agree with, and you examine it, use it to make a decision. I believe most liberals want to do the right thing by helping the poor, but the way they go about it is the wrong way. But at the end of the day, If you can defend your opinion with educated thought, go for what you believe. That's why America is the greatest nation on earth. And men and women shed their blood so you can be wrong. :)
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So... out of curiosity, how do you feel the last president who had a "strong faith" turned out? (and that was our battle cry when he ran the last two elections, so we can't discount that he was elected heavily based on his profession of faith).
And I'd also like to know what BO believes that goes against biblical principals? if we're just talking abortion, fine, i'll give you that ... but Pro-Life and believing in the sanctity of life are different things. I'd argue that many "pro-lifers" don't take the sanctity of life nearly as seriously in other issues as they do in abortion, so just for the sake of argument, lets leave the abortion issue out... So, what else?
(common sense is certainly debatable on many levels so no need to discuss that)
sure, I'm game. We can pull out the "George Bush was a disaster, let's go the total opposite way" card if you want. :P I don't care about George Bush right now. He's not running. And John McCain is not his doppleganger.
The faith of the person running doesn't influence me as much as how his or her policies are going to flow with my faith. I'm obviously not going to elect someone who believes in abortion, (yeah, let's throw that one out, it's not important), how are being pro life and believing in the sanctity of life different? the death penalty (I'm anti death penalty), and so on. I don't believe in socialism. We are meant to be prosperous so we can give, (not have it taken, but GIVE freely for God's glory). Obama is pure socialism, as are most of his policies. Shared wealth (when distributed by the government)is not biblical.
That is all.
:p
RE: socialist government: please either show how it is not biblical (using, i dunno, the bible ;) ) or rephrase... "shared (wealth distributed by the government)is neither biblical or un-biblical, but goes against my personal belief" ... which is fine.
Your post says he goes against "so many biblical... principles" ... i'm just curious as to what those BIBLICAL principles are and where in the Bible we can find these principles?
If you want to say "BO does not share my belief/value/faith system" i can understand that. However when you implicate that there is BIBLICAL precedence that leads you to believe that you should not vote BO, than of course i'm interested... after all, i wouldn't want to do something that goes against biblical precedence! I'm not being antagonistic. Consider me moldable; i would absolutely change my opinion of BO if his form of government is shown biblically wrong.
RE: Abortion - I didn't throw it out, i ceded it to you. I'm pro-life as well, but i refuse to build my political stance on a singular issue. And if you really want to rock your pro-life world, check out the God-Ordained test for an unfaithful wife in the Old Testament (numbers 5). It rocked my pro-life world and i'm still not sure what to do with it...
If you're Pro-Life, are you also AGAINST in-vitro fertilization? (i don't know your stance on IVF, but your Pro-Life claim and how you feel above IVF should be closely related ...)
Even still, i perceive sanctity of life extending beyond abortion and should include opportunity for quality of life, which has a lot of implications on various political issues... War, Death Penalty, Stem Cell Research, IVF, Immigration, Welfare, and so on.
My measuring stick is my faith as well, and because we share a common faith I am truly interested in Scriptural truth that has lead you to consider BO's style of government against our faith.
amend in the abortion section about IVF: - should say "(i don't know your stance on IVF, but your Pro-Life claim and how you feel ABOUT IVF should be closely related ...)"
didn't meant to say you felt ABOVE IVF... :D
As for the socialsim portion of our discussion, in my research I found a quote from James Dobson (as opposed to the Pat Robertson's or the Fallwell's of our day, I have respect for him) and he summed it up nicely.
Dobson: On the world stage of varying economic philosophies, I believe that Capitalism has been shown to be the best economic system for improving the living conditions of mankind. It is not perfect, just like Democracy is not a perfect system of government, but they are by far the best systems given the nature of man. The main reason for the overwhelming success of Capitalism is that hard work and personal discipline are rewarded in many ways. The weakness of Socialism is that the reward mechanism for hard work is missing. It offers no incentive for creativity and “sweat equity.” Communism and Socialism destroy the God-given motivation of man because they penalize creativity and effort. Instead, they reward mediocrity, slovenliness and apathy. By contrast, free-enterprise works hand in hand with human nature.
http://www.acton.org/publications/randl/rl_interview_171.php
There's more but, eh, the girls are frying my brain right now, so I'll revisit this later. If you want to chew on a few things, think responsibility of Body of Christ vs. government (and what their mission is supposed to be and how they are supposed to execute that mission)
Seantics can be argued plenty, and I can see how higher taxes to help the weakest might seem honorable, but the bible says
Deuteronomy 26:12 “When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.”
2 Corinthians 9:6-9 “Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. As it is written: ‘He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever.’"
James 1:27 “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” (I consider the government "the world")
I guess the hot button issue for me is the abortion issue. Obama supports abortion and partial birth abortion. "Thou shalt not kill" I'm sure is in there somewhere. This is my clincher (if you haven't been able to figure that out yet :)) I'm anti-war as well (except in cases of defense). IVF, I'd have to say I dunno, it's complicated, but I lean towards non intervention where life is concerned. The water gets murky, though.
I'd just have to say that my conclusion leads me to believe that Obama is not the guy for me.
"I'd just have to say that my conclusion leads me to believe that Obama is not the guy for me." ...
That is much more acceptable than saying someone/thing is unbiblical without a scriptural support. :)
which is really all my point is in the first place, but it was a nice break to pick at each other for a few minutes (or, however long it collectively took us to throw things at each other)...
there are other points on both sides (such as how the government was structured in the OT, and more about IVF, and an expanded talk about your 2nd Cor. verse, which is a good one for this topic), but i really don't think we're as far apart as we come off in our respective blogs and comments.
Thanks for sharpening and challenging and putting up with me.
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